Curse

My Lipgloss is Cool · Apr 12, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

To all the people saying '+5 is better because an extra attack is better than the 15% extra damage',
You're assuming that you'll always be in the fight untill your energy hits 0, instead of finishing a fight and having time to regen between battles. With any general PvE or PvP build you shouldn't need that extra 1 attack and if you do, then just switch over to the +5e, or just auto attack...With some decent critstrikes and/or zealous daggers, you'll have more than enough energy in no time.

MLiC

petrorabbit · Apr 12, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

I'm sure most people who do use +5 energy also use zealous with either 8 or 13 critical strikes.

I always use zealous unless i'm going conjure, with +5 energy. I dont' depend on that extra 5 energy, but it usually is the difference between being able to dash away from combat after I unload a combo on the called target, or be able to use an extra flurry to finish the target.

I'm not saying +5 is better, but 15^50 isn't that much superior if it is at all. As others have said, its good to have both sets handy, and weapon swapping is key to a successful assassin. It depends on the preferences, of the player, and what works for them. Still, nobody can say another player is bad for using 15^50 or +5 energy, when their preference really isn't convincingly superior.

Bowstring Badass · Apr 13, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

To all the people saying '+5 is better because an extra attack is better than the 15% extra damage',
You're assuming that you'll always be in the fight untill your energy hits 0, instead of finishing a fight and having time to regen between battles. With any general PvE or PvP build you shouldn't need that extra 1 attack and if you do, then just switch over to the +5e, or just auto attack...With some decent critstrikes and/or zealous daggers, you'll have more than enough energy in no time.

MLiC

So your telling me to auto attack in my 35 energy combo? I don't think so.

Coloneh · Apr 13, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Its not so much the high-energy combo as the start-off. A PvE assassin should be casting critical defenses, critical agility, a self heal (lets go with way of perfection) and probably critical eye, and they you have to begin your MS/DB chain, usually with GPS. so thats 10+5+5+5+5=30. 30 energy spent before the first strike, and if you dont crit on they first strike with a basic energy pool you cant use DB until after an autoattack or two. and what if you have DP?

15^50 on the other hand, adds only adds 1-2.55 damage.

continuing the attack chain sounds way better to me.

Shaz · Apr 13, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Like Faer said, people just need better skill bar, then they wouldn't need +5 energy at 0 DP.

The way I see it is -
15>50% = more damage, how ever small it may be.
+5 energy = doesn't help you any if you have good skill bar.

Div · Apr 13, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Its not so much the high-energy combo as the start-off. A PvE assassin should be casting critical defenses, critical agility, a self heal (lets go with way of perfection) and probably critical eye, and they you have to begin your MS/DB chain, usually with GPS. so thats 10+5+5+5+5=30. 30 energy spent before the first strike, and if you dont crit on they first strike with a basic energy pool you cant use DB until after an autoattack or two. and what if you have DP?

15^50 on the other hand, adds only adds 1-2.55 damage.

continuing the attack chain sounds way better to me.

Learning how to weapon swap sounds way better to me.

First of all, you're going to be regening some energy when you're doing your setup. Second, if you don't get the critical strike energy, you can always switch while getting the 15% extra damage on your first X hits.

How can people be this bad at assassin? Is it just because I'm too leet? wakkakakakaka epeen+1

Arkantos · Apr 13, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Its not so much the high-energy combo as the start-off. A PvE assassin should be casting critical defenses, critical agility, a self heal (lets go with way of perfection) and probably critical eye, and they you have to begin your MS/DB chain, usually with GPS. so thats 10+5+5+5+5=30. 30 energy spent before the first strike, and if you dont crit on they first strike with a basic energy pool you cant use DB until after an autoattack or two. and what if you have DP?

15^50 on the other hand, adds only adds 1-2.55 damage.

continuing the attack chain sounds way better to me.

You don't need a self heal, and you don't need critical defense. What you do need though, is to not be bad.

You can cast critical eye whenever, it can be kept up indefinitely with high critical strikes (which everyone is running I hope), so use that before a fight. Once your group aggro's, cast critical agility and start your chain. If you start running low on energy, switch to +5 set. If you have dp, do the same.
If you have so much dp you need your +5 set to do anything, get better monks or stop taking aggro.

Bobby2 · Apr 13, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

You don't need a self heal

/agree, hench Monk > self-heal

Quote:

you don't need critical defense

...comes in damn handy though - perma 75% is good in my book

Quote:

You can cast critical eye whenever

use Critical Strike?

Coloneh · Apr 13, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

You don't need a self heal, and you don't need critical defense.

one person I never thought i would get to say this to: learn to play.

the self heal thing i can see from a PvPer's point of view, but PvE characters that run with any henchie monks should have a slef heal. end of story.

critical defenses is only necessary if you dont want to, you know, explode. dont be stupid.

I can see the weapon swapping point, but gaining like 8 damage per target thats going to die in the same number of attack skills anyways really isn't worth it.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 14, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

one person I never thought i would get to say this to: learn to play.

the self heal thing i can see from a PvPer's point of view, but PvE characters that run with any henchie monks should have a slef heal. end of story.

critical defenses is only necessary if you dont want to, you know, explode. dont be stupid.

I trust my party's passive defenses enough to know that self-heals and self-defenses are deadweight on my bar.

Arkantos · Apr 14, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

one person I never thought i would get to say this to: learn to play.

the self heal thing i can see from a PvPer's point of view, but PvE characters that run with any henchie monks should have a slef heal. end of story.

critical defenses is only necessary if you dont want to, you know, explode. dont be stupid.

I can see the weapon swapping point, but gaining like 8 damage per target thats going to die in the same number of attack skills anyways really isn't worth it.

If you need a self heal and critical defenses, you're bad. I'm not saying people who use them are bad, I'm saying people who need them are. Unless you're h/hing hard mode, you don't need them. They aren't bad, but definitely aren't needed. Learn to position, learn to not take initial aggro, learn to shadow step.

I really find it funny that I need to learn how to play when you're the one who apparently can't sin without a self heal and critical defenses. That said, maybe you're the one who needs to learn how to play.

Either I'm as leet as divine, or you're just a bad sin.

Bobby2 · Apr 14, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

learn to shadow step

Not necessary in PvE.

Arkantos · Apr 14, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Not necessary in PvE.

True, but in this case I'd rather take a shadowstep over a self heal and critical defenses. Generally I'll take none of them.

Div · Apr 14, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Death's retreat is like a two-in-one self-heal and defense. With critical agility, you're already looking at 90+ armor, which puts you on par with shield warriors against elemental damage (which is the bulk of the damage). If you really don't trust your heroes or can't micro them well, then go ahead and waste 2 skills on a bar, since a gimped assassin is better than a dead one. But doing so will be somewhat equivalent to having healing breeze on a warrior. Not quite that bad, but your freed up skill slots could be used to improve damage output or support.

DreamRunner · Apr 14, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Doing TA with no Critical Defense? I wouldn't like it to do it. No, it isn't needed but its I would very much hate to run without it. Line backing and even crip slash would be get the best of you.

Arkantos · Apr 14, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Doing TA with no Critical Defense? I wouldn't like it to do it. No, it isn't needed but its I would very much hate to run without it. Line backing and even crip slash would be get the best of you.

I heard we weren't talking about PvP, c/d.

Div · Apr 14, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Why would you bring a sin outside the SA or scythe sins anyway? And I don't remember either of those having critical defense. Moko probably knows a lot more about TA gimmicks though

RavagerOfDreams · Apr 14, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Why would you bring a sin outside the SA or scythe sins anyway? And I don't remember either of those having critical defense. Moko probably knows a lot more about TA gimmicks though

no your right most sins don't run crit defenses with the scythe build in ta at least although i can see it having its advantages

as per the 15^50 +5 energy

15^50 unless your having energy problems or spamming a chain

spiking = 15^50
spamming (i.e moebius/shattering assualt) = +5 energy as you'll be wearing on your energy supply a lot more then just the sudden burst that comes from spiking

Shaz · Apr 14, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

spamming (i.e moebius/shattering assualt) = +5 energy as you'll be wearing on your energy supply a lot more then just the sudden burst that comes from spiking

You should find skills to help you manage energy instead. For example: critical eye, critical strike, etc. and zealous dagger. Energy management is > high energy pool.

RavagerOfDreams · Apr 14, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

You should find skills to help you manage energy instead. For example: critical eye, critical strike, etc. and zealous dagger. Energy management is > high energy pool.

pvp wise critical strike is baed compared to twisting fangs or horns of the ox (knock-locks always good for the lulz)

as for critical eye its nice but the +1/-1 +5e daggers get the job done and open up a space on my bar

in the end im out about 1-2 damage and since a moebius/shattering sins goal is pressure not spike i can live with with that

mind you im speaking strictly pvp here in pve i always use 15^50 as critical strike > energy